Random Thoughts, Episode 1

Natalie Rash: Hey everyone and welcome to the first episode of Random Thoughts. I'm Natalie and I'm here with Giselle and Segen, and basically this series is us delving deeper into a random thought one of us had recently. 

Giselle Medina: So I was on TikTok and I saw a video from Omar Apollo's Prototype tour - and this was basically just a quick rundown of the show and the vibe change when he started to sing Evergreen - and that basically made me think about the relationship between music and TikTok. 

Segen Assefa: That also kind of made us question: is social media ruining spectatorship? Or, even just ruining the culture around live experiences? 

Giselle: So I feel like we can't start this conversation without talking about Steve Lacey and his song Bad Habit, and that song was released again in late June with the full album, Gemini Rights, which released the following month on July 15th. Lacey also wrote and produced Bad Habit, which has since charted on the Billboard Hot 100 for 18 weeks straight, even reaching the top slot for a period of time. And according to Billboard, Lacey is the first solo male to command the Hot 100 with a rookie entry and no accompanying acts since Louis Capaldi's, “Someone You Loved”, his recent release. Steve started his tour for his Gemini Rights album two weeks ago and he received some not so positive attention when he smashed a fan's camera during his set at his New Orleans show. Did you guys see that? 

Segen: Yes. Yeah. Oh my god, it was so bad because it was so funny. 

Giselle: Lowkey, after watching the full video, that camera was thrown on stage and um, maybe this is a little toxic to say, but I feel like I would've done the same.

Segen: Yeah. Didn't it hit him? And he smashed it? 

Natalie: Not all artists are down for that. For people just throwing stuff on stage, like it might just not be the environment to be doing that. People have to read the room a little bit. 

Giselle: We also have a clip here just so that you can hear the stuff that was going around at this moment.

Warning, there's strong language in the video. 

(Audio clip retrieved from Pop Crave)

Steve Lacy: No, don't throw no shit on my fucking please.

Please.

That's it. Peace.

Natalie: But back to the issue. The thing is, Steve isn't even a new artist. He's been in the industry for a while as a producer, a solo artist, and also a guitarist with the r&b band, The Internet, which is actually why I first heard of him. With Bad Habit blowing up on TikTok, it seems there's only a specific part that some people know. And so here's another clip from TikTok user @basicallyimonky. 

(Audio clip)

Giselle: The way nobody sang the next verse. Embarrassing. What killed me about that video is that you can hear in the background someone saying, “Oh, I'm sorry. I don't really know”. Oh my God, the rest of the song, and it's because Steve Lacey went and said, “So you guys aren't gonna sing the next verse?” 

Natalie: And I feel like you could even see the realization on his face like, “Oh my God, these people in my crowd don't even know like the next verse of my song”. 

Segen: Also, like not to call people out, but I feel like if you hear a song on social media or TikTok and you like it, wouldn't you like go and listen to the entire song? It doesn't just stop with the snippet. Like that's weird. 

Giselle: Yeah. I feel like also, I don't know, maybe I'm weird. Then I listen to the album. Right before I go to the concert, just to make sure that I'm not gonna embarrass myself. 

Natalie: I also don't know if this is just me, but I don't typically buy a ticket to a concert if I only know one song too. Like I wanna know more of the music, if I'm gonna spend my money. 

Segen: Because it's humiliating! I feel like back then -  like I'm old - but like to be surrounded by people that are genuine fans and then you go to a concert and you realize, wow, I really don't know any of these songs. I don't know if it's anyone else, but like I get embarrassed and even I feel bad because I’m there. 

Going back to the whole disposable camera thing, did he have to  issue an apology and be like, I'm sorry I did that. Meanwhile, the person that threw the camera, like no one really held them accountable. 

Giselle: I don't think -  Did he apologize for it? Hold on. I have the Instagram post. Oh my God. No, Homie said, 

“I don't believe I owe anyone an apology. Maybe I could have reacted better. Sure. Always. I'm a student of life, but I'm a real person with real feelings and real reactions. I'm not a product or a robot. I am a human. I will continue to give my all at these shows. Please come with respect for yourself and others.” 

Segen: Oh my God. I thought he apologized. I take that back. Good for him though. 

Giselle: Yeah, for sure. I'm like, I wouldn't apologize. 

Natalie: Correct me if I'm wrong, but also he's friends, or at least he runs in the same circles as Tyler, the Creator. Like, I don't know why people are shocked that he's not super susceptible to just being like, Oh, I'm so sorry for X, Y, and Z. Like he's not really like that. 

Giselle: Yeah. Did you see the video of him at one of his concerts? Like right before he's about to start a song, somebody's just like, “Can you say hi to my mom?” or my grandma, or whatever, and he's like, can you shut up, and he just starts playing the song right after that. Yeah. So just with that energy, you just know that he's not gonna apologize for it, and I don't feel like he needs to. 

Segen: No he shouldn't. I thought he did. That's why I brought it up. But in learning that he didn't, I'm happier, actually. All this to say, do you guys feel that when certain snippets go viral on TikTok, not even just for you as a person, but in general, that it's ruining perceptions of like popular songs or like how we view music?

Giselle: I don't know. I feel like I've told you guys already that I'm terrible when it comes to music and I really be liking the songs that are from TikTok. And my playlist right now on Spotify is a bunch of songs that are from TikTok and have blown up on TikTok. So I feel like it definitely has helped me gain a new outlook of like all the new music that's coming out, but it's literally only those 15, 20 seconds that are being played over and over.

Natalie: Yeah, like Giselle said, I've definitely found some songs through TikTok, but I've also found that I've gotten sick of songs through TikTok, through hearing just a short little snippet. And I do kind of also feel for artists like Steve Lacey, who maybe that's just not really the intention with their music. Sure, they wanted to reach a broader audience, but I'm sure they want their fans to show up and, you know, know the words and know beyond just this one popular song. 

Segen: I was gonna say, I do feel like TikTok is also making it so that everyone kind of now has a very similar music taste.

And if it's not exactly the same, it's like very easily categorized because I think the way that songs go viral on TikTok, even if they're like remixes or stuff, has made us lazy in terms of looking for new music and discovering artists on our own. And I guess I feel like what happened in part with Steve Lacey's concert was people were going because it's like, Oh, this blew up on TikTok and I wanna show that I was there even if I'm not the biggest fan or I only know this one song, versus it being like an organic discovery of the music and then being like a genuine fan - not to police who's like a genuine fan or not - but that's just how it comes off to me.

Giselle: Yeah. I can see your point as well, because like, I think Steve Lacey's song has around 580,000 videos that have used his song, so there’s quite a big chunk of your For You page using one song. 

Segen: And that's not even taking in the fact that there's a jersey club remix, which is really good, but oh my God. 

Giselle: Send it to me.

Segen: Oh, I'll look for it right now. It's good, but there's like a remix of that song that also went super popular, but it's also like, Who's Steve Lacey? 

Natalie: I wonder what his reaction is, if he's heard that and how he feels about the remixes and stuff.

Giselle: I want him to come out with a video and like rank all of the remixes. 

Natalie: Okay, so next is Omar Apollo's song “Evergreen”, also known as You Didn't Deserve Me at All, which is another example where something like this happened. And so Evergreen is a part of Apollo's fourth project but his first studio album Ivory, which was released on April 8th.

Evergreen was also promoted as Apollo's first radio single. And funny enough, Lacey also wrote and produced this song. Since its debut on October 1st, it’s been on the Billboard Top 100 for seven weeks, or at least that's how long it was on there. And as of right now, there are about 387,000 videos that have used Evergreen, um, on TikTok, which is pretty interesting.

So Giselle had sent over the video that she mentioned before when she was just scrolling through TikTok and it popped up on her feet and the caption was, TikTok has ruined the concert experience. Do you wanna talk a little bit more about that video, Giselle? 

Giselle: For sure. I mean, like, I will admit, like this was a video that popped up on my, like for you page at 1:00 AM and, um, I felt it was so weird because in the video itself, everybody in a specific section was sitting down, and then once Evergreen came on, that's when everybody stood up.

Segen: Like you went from buying shoes at this section to belting your heart out when that one song came on, I feel like, I don't know, even though I get it, like the artists can't see your screen. It also feels kind of disrespectful. Not even disrespectful just to them, but like, do you yourself not feel ashamed that you spent all this money on a ticket and now you're sitting in the arena on your phone? Like at least get up and like fake dance? 

You know, it's the same vibe I feel  when people go to a club and they don’t know a song, so they sit down like, oh my God, get up? 

Natalie: Yeah. 

Giselle: I think I also feel. It brings to light the point of when you're on TikTok and you're scrolling through your feed and you're seeing everybody at a concert, you see that the energy's there for specific songs and things like that. But this video kind of showed the behind the scenes aspect of things like, This is not what is being showcased. Like people are coming here and like low key disrespecting this artist throughout their whole entire show. Like obviously a show that they spent time to kind of perfect and make sure that we all have a great experience and it's just like the energy isn't being reciprocated.

Natalie: Yeah, and I think too, some of these artists coming on stage, like it's super vulnerable for them too. And if you're having, if you imagine you're having a conversation with someone and they're being super open to you and then you just like pull up your phone and you're buying sneakers while they're like, Talking about something super emotional to you, like you wouldn't do that. And I know it's not the same thing, you know, when you pay to go to someone's concert, but I think you should still have some level of respect, you know, around that same thing. I don't know. 

Segen: I also think it's really interesting now like seeing that person that was in the show buying sneakers, because I went back and re-watched it and it looked like he was on like Grailed or GOAT or like one of those sites that sells like hypebeast sneakers and thinking about like not just constant surveillance like at events and stuff and like, but also like what people are doing and it him, I guess like buying clothing and doing all that at the middle of a concert where he doesn't know the words but it's presumably he's there just because it's like hype also shows how there's this constant, like even if it's not just music, but this constant like trying to look cool and trying to like appeal to outside without really like, analyzing what is in your taste. I️ hope that makes sense. I feel like that didn't make sense, but I don't know. I've been thinking about that since watching TikTok. 

Natalie: Yeah, I think that definitely makes sense. It's a super interesting point because, I mean, I don't know if this is exactly what you're saying, but I also wonder sometimes you see videos on TikTok where someone is taking a video of what someone else is doing on their phone, and you're like, Okay, is this super, super organic? Or you know, is this planned? Like are they trying to go viral? 

Segen: Right. And I also wonder that too, sometimes with things on TikTok and even with these concerts, like what's going on in the audience? Is that all actually natural or is it kind of this TikTok fad going on too. And I know there was one point where we mentioned like if our artists create these like 15, 20 second  snippets to simply go viral or is it because this is music that they wanna create and they like and it so happens to go viral?

Giselle: Okay, so I did a deep dive for TikTok’s website and I found a section that is. Music influencers or like music content creators, and it says, Sounds are crucial on the app and artists, it states you can find a devoted fan base with one viral clip of your song. I feel like an artist can kind of find the part of their song that they vibe with and then kind of see how it will do on the app. And if it goes viral, then that's great. Then you know that your song is going to have good traction in a sense. But I mean, I feel like with artists  like Beyonce. I fully don't think she was out here thinking that Cuff It was gonna have the impact that it was gonna have. I feel like she'd just be making things and she knows that we're going to eat it up.

Natalie: Yeah. And kind of when Cuff It went viral, it was kind of long after, not super long after, but it was after the album was even released. So you kind, And she wasn't promoting that specific song as a single, It just kind of organically went viral and people made a dance to it. 

It kind of also reminded me of earlier on in the pandemic, Doja Cat had a couple songs that went viral too, and people made dances too, like Say So. And then through the release of her album Planet Her, it just seemed like her clips were going viral. I think maybe cuz of the nature of her style and you know, her, her type of rap and how you can kind of pull these chunks out to make a dance to or something.

But sometimes it does just feel more organic. But then you have other artists where it does not, or you know, It gets kind of uncomfortable cuz you're like, Oh, this was made for TikTok and only TikTok. Like, is anybody gonna listen to this after that? 

Giselle: Doja Cat is the queen of TikTok. Like, I feel like every single song that she came out with went viral on TikTok, and I feel like that's because it had such a catchy beat that everybody was dancing to it.

And one of the easiest ways to go viral on TikTok is through a dance. So I felt like she was just winning with all of her songs. 

Natalie: Yeah, for sure. Some of the other dances that I remember that we've seen go viral are, you know, WAP by Cardi B and Megan, the Stallion, Lizzo’s song About Damn Time. You know, those were some other ones that went viral with a dance too, cause either a dance or like a really catchy hook 

Segen: Like Ice Spice or Glorilla.

But then people started making dances. But I think initially it was just like the songs that caught people. It really does feel like half the time though, it really just is like a marketing thing. Like, do you really like this song? Do you really think this is good?

Giselle: No, for sure, because I feel like Megan Trainor's new song, I'm literally blanking on the title.

Segen: I know which one you're talking about, cuz I sang it in the shower yesterday by accident and I was so embarrassed -  the made you look. Yeah. 

Giselle: Made You Look from her newest album. That is a marketing ploy. And I, I just know it because there is no way that you have this one snippet going viral on TikTok, everybody is using that hashtag, using the song clip or whatever for most of their TikToks before the album even released. But I feel like it's also the fact that Chris Olson is on her marketing team as well. And he has such a big following on TikTok and having him on her marketing team has been one of the best decisions for her.

Natalie: Yeah, and it was pretty smart how they kind of made it seem like they had this friendship beforehand, or they really just played it off as like, Oh yeah, we're friends. And then the videos he was in kind of got her song popular, get some of these videos popular. 

Giselle: Listen, if you can get Chris Olson on your team, he knows TikTok inside and out from being so popular from the beginning of the pandemic. So a win for her.  

Natalie: Honestly, if artists can figure out how to capitalize on using TikTok to their favor, like why not? It's already shown to be such a powerful tool in music and you know, making songs popular and getting them on the charts, so why not use it to your advantage? 

Segen: Do you guys also feel like that because of the fact celebrities are so visible on social media, particularly like TikTok, they have to try to make their music more marketable to appeal to fans. Or do you think, do you think it's like a reason, or do you think it's like a side, I don't wanna say side effect, but like a side cause of them being so visible on social media. Cause now there's like, there's not that allure, you know? You see what's going on in their lives day to day. So it's like, well, I don't care about the music, I'm just gonna laugh at the Tik Toks. So do you think they have to make their things extra catchy so people want to engage with them outside of likes and comments and stuff?

Cause I feel like there's some celebrities that are so funny. Like I think Doja Cat sometimes is funny. Her music? Not life changing for me. So I'll like to watch her Tik Toks. I'll read her tweets, but I'm not gonna really listen to her music unless it’s actively put on my timeline or my four you page.

Natalie: Yeah. I don't think they should have to appeal to the TikTok audience. Like you said, it kind of takes the allure away. I've had a couple songs that I've listened to that maybe I either heard on TikTok or I later found out was Viral on TikTok. And when you kind of become hyper aware of, you know, these super catchy parts, you kind of wonder, you're like, Oh, is this like this really super constructed song and I'm only listening to like a formula versus an actual song. And I don't think that every artist, like, I don't know. I don't think that every artist is really meant for a sort of TikTok career. They might not even want that. 

Segen: I don't know. It just feels very loaded. Cuz on one hand, I'm not a marketing expert, right? I can't be like, Oh, this is bad, this is good.

This is what it is. But at the same time, especially as a consumer on that app, sometimes it does feel overly manufactured, whether it's how artists are putting out music or what they're putting out, or even just their presence on apps, and I get it, it's a business, but, just like - lie a little better. Please. 

Giselle: Not the lie a little better. 

Segen: Like, I dunno. I dunno. 

Giselle: Okay, so that wraps up our mini rant slash mini deep dive into the relationship we feel TikTok has had with music. Thanks for listening and we'll catch up in the next episode.